Power Generation: Site Design, Installation, and Connection

[wtc2008]

Hi,

I encounter a speed adjust problem. I need help.

My customer wants to parallel two C15 gensets, he plans to adjust speed through J1939, so he add a new module (compatible with J1939) in primary J939 network(CAN1)  to adjust speed. Now in primary j1939 network, there are EMCP3.1,new module, ECM.

I knew EMCP3.1 could adjust speed through CAN1 aftering setting ECM accepting CAN input. But I am not sure if the mentioned structure is workable and no conflict. I mean the new module could work properly and adjust speed through CAN. I know few about J1939.

Could anybody work on this?

Thanks

wtc2008

[mikel]

I have had a few customers try to do speed adjustment over network for phase match paralleling, all with poor results. Depending on what originates the speed bias command, then how fast it can write the desired value, get it thru it's gateway to the J1939, have the EMCP3 then send it to the engine can make paralleing much more of an issue than is should be.

What device are you actually using to perform the auto sync or sync check? Are you paralleling to a grid or large stable bus or to a smaller network that is not frequency stable?

The best answer at this point with the amount of information you have provide is "it depends", a lot of factors to weigh to determine if it will do the job you require, and frankly with the large varity of commercially available synchronizers on the market that do an excellent job in most cases, not sure why someone would want that headache. 

My two cents worth, Mike L.

[wtc2008]

Mikel,

Thanks for your reply.

I have found that DEIF and ComAp all develop paralleling control system based on J1939, even special details for known engine builder such as MTU, CAT and so on. My customer are testing the new system. It is a trend.

Thanks,

wtc2008

[see-deif]

wtc2008

Yes, speed trim signals necessary for paralleling and KW control can and are being "sent down the CAN" at literally thousands of installations worldwide. The biggest question we have as independent controls manufacturers is "will the ECU accept it." On ADEM 3.x, yes, they can.

You say, however, the primary CAN1 system. I am a little confused here, sorry. We always talk to the EMCP on the "user" CAN, not directly onto the CAN the ECU uses to communicate with the engine. OK, we have done it by taking off the EMCP and talking directly to the ADEM, but we are not supposed to do that. That was only for a test.

Write me if you have any more questions. I am not using this forum to sell, only to inform.

Best regards,

Steve

[wtc2008]

Steve,

Thanks.

I have seen the customer is using Controler from DEIF for paralleling aplication.

I am not sure about the effect.

It is better for DEIF provide total solution than supply controler only.

Regards,

wtc2008

[rahul]

hi

  if u r going to make sync the genset, you can make sync to use a potentiometer for adjust the engine speed and put in ECM settings PWM 

[sdc-DEIF]

I have been working with the CAT engines and the J1939 for a while.

The problem that you have is actually not related to J1939 protocol or any of the connected products.

It is the EMCP who repeatedly sends out the TM1 speed telegram with reference “0”

When the ADEM then receives the telegram from two sources and the telegrams have two different value then it gets confused. Result is that the engine is hunting.

It is not possible to block the telegram from the EMCP, so the only solution if J1939 control is required is to remove it.

I have also used a more soft solution where we just listen to the data on the J1939 and use the PWM for the regulation. In the ADEM both primary and secondary control have to be set to PWM as the invalid signal from the EMCP will take over in different situations and that is not always desired.

Med venlig hilsen/Best regards

Søren Dahl Christensen

DEIF A/S

Plant managemnt Solutions

Technical presales Manager,

Power Technology Diesel

[wtc2008]

Thanks useful information from DEIF.