08-06-2010 01:41 PM
I'm starting a new generator synconizing switchgear project (not a life safety system) using a new CAT genset with the A4E4 ECM, EMCP 3.2 GCP, and Cat Digital Voltage Regulator all talking on a CAN J1939 bus. I am planning to use the Woodward easYgen 3100 controller for load sharing, syncronizing, and breaker automation. The easYgen has a CAN bus that is designed to interface with J1939 engine control systems but the Woodward manuals don't make any reference to the Cat A4E4 as a ECM that will work with the easYgen. Has anyone sucessfully used this specific Woodward controller or any other Woodward controllers to interface with these CAT systems over CAN? If so, I have some questions:
1. Will the CAT ECM accept a START and STOP command via J1939?
2. Will the CAT ECM accept speed trim commands via J1939?
3. Will the CAT DVR accept voltage trim commands via J1939?
4. The EMCP has two CAN ports. Do I have to connect to the same port the ECM is on (PORT 1) or can I connect the Woodward controller to the accessory J1939 port (PORT 2)?
5. What would I program into the Woodward controller for Parameter 15102 (J1939 Device Type)? Options are: Standard, S6 Scania, EMR2 Deutz, EMR2 Volvo, ADEC MTU, EGS Woodward, EDC7 MAN, EEM SISU, Cummins. I'm guessing "Standard" is the way to go.
By the way, I do realize that the EMCP has a MODBUS port which I could use. My thinking was that the Woodward easYgen is designed out of the box to control a J1939 engine and it appears it would "Plug and Play" very easily from an integration and programming perspective. MODBUS would require a lot of manual point mapping and an upstream PLC. It would be easier to just hardwire everything.
Thanks in advance for any advice!!!!
08-10-2010 11:39 PM
My own experience with integrating a CAT unit with industry provided J1939 devices and controllers has been poor. CAT "mostly" conforms to the J1939 standards, but feels the data link is golden and really did a very bad job of making it compatible with industry available devices. I have done one job with a Woodward easYgen integrated with an EMCP3.3, in the end it was easier to go the Modbus route (but still a pain, CAT also did a lousy job laying out the Modbus tables and data).
Technically the answer is yes to most of your questions, but in some cases the "standard PGN" doesn't work, so you'll need documentation from CAT to make sure you have the PGN and information for it.
CAN port 1 is supposed to be for ECM to EMCP3.X comms, external accessories and devices are supposed to use Port 2. Some controllers will work on Port 1, but problems can occur is the traffic levels become excessive, causing the data link to fail.
For a while a custom easYgen was going to be the EMCP3.S, not sure where that program is now, but there are probably some good reasons a CAT interface is not defined in the off the shelf easYgen. The folks at ISO/CAT Switchgear may have some additional info if you can find someone willing to help.
08-12-2010 09:06 AM
You didn't mention if the CAT units were already purchased or not. MTU Onsite Energy uses the Basler DGC2020 controller which has an autosync feature. This combined with the LSM2020 load share module will eliminate the need for the Woodward system altogether. The DGC2020 and LSM2020 can control your breakers as well much like the Woodward EasyGen. The LSM2020 handles load sharing as well as load management dropping gensets out if the demand drops and bringing them on if the load increases. If you install motorized breakers on the gensets themselves then all you need is the bus to which the power can be delivered. The great thing about having this come from the manufacturer is that the DGC2020, and LSM2020 and already prewired to each other as well as the engine controller so integration is simple.
08-13-2010 12:23 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Based on this information and other research I have done, I believe I will attempt to use the J1939 link for monitoring only and rely on hardwired connections between the PLC / Easygen and the EMCP / CDVR for control. The EasyGen has a programming option to enable and disable J1939 control messages. In theory, I can disable control messages, do control via hardwired connections, and still get the J1939 data into the EasyGen. This works for me. If you have any other comments or recommendations, then shoot them to me.
On a second note, I'm looking for someone to compare and contrast the differences between the Woodward EasyGen 3200 and the Basler DGC 2020. Anyone used both and have some insight on which is the best? They appear to be approximately the same cost and I'm very familiar with the Basler protective relays so I could consider their genset controller too.
08-13-2010 05:53 PM
Both are capable, each has their quirks. The easYgen is a complete unit in a single package for most applications, the Basler needs additional module if you want to load share, or control the governor or AVR by analog outputs. Some of the standard features of the easYgen are options on the Basler, like Modbus comms.
In general my customers have liked the display and interface on the Woodward better than the Basler. The electrical protective elements are a little better on the Basler (go figure), but the Woodward's work fine for most applications.
Hope that helps,
09-22-2010 02:01 AM
HI I AM ASAAD FROM IRAQ I SEE YOUR PROBLEM THE ECM HAVE NOT ANY THINGS ABOUT PARALLING OR SINGLE IT JUST RESPONSIBLE ABOUT ENGINE AND DELIVER A NOTIFY FROM CONTROL PANAL THE SYNIC SIGNAL LIKE DROP OR ISOSYNC.LIKE THAT THE IN CHARG OF ALL THIS OPRATION IT LOAD SHARE MOUDEL AND SPM. IF YOU NEED TO CONECT ON CAN BUS YOU MUST CHOOSE HOW MANY ITEM CONECT .... SORRY TO BAD EXPLANE AND SPELLING..
11-18-2010 10:48 AM
Did you get this running?
I know you said you would use hardwired control but I wondered if you tried the J1939 speed control? I have used it with the 3200 EasYgen and it works, no problem, somehow I am still happier with the hardwired control. J1939 for engine control is direct to the engine, not via EMCP3.x
CDVR control on J1939 is done with the EMCP3.x, I have never seen it done with third party kit, EasYgen dosen't seem to have any option for such control. Never seen information pulled of a CDVR on J1939 either, have though used ET for programming on the J1939 so it does work.
11-22-2010 08:21 AM
Thanks for the info FJ45. I am actually scheduled to comission this system in two weeks so I don't yet have any results but here is my final plan: I will connect the CANOPEN / J1939 port on the easYgen to the CAT ECM and attempt to do all control over this at first. The electrical plan has enough conductors pulled between the PLC panel and the generator to facilitiate any hardwire control circuits we may need to hook up so if I can't get it to work over CAN then I can fall back on hardwired connections. I'm lucky that my customer's schedule has enough slack in it to allow me to do some trial and error testing with the PLC, switchgear, and generator. I'll be using a loadbank fed from the swtichgear instead of any real loads so I figure if it all goes to hell then I'm not at risk of damaging anything before the protective relays shut everything down.
On a related topic, if you are a Caterpillar employee then please read this: During this project it has become apparent to me that the Caterpillar documentation and drawings leave A LOT to be desired. I realize CAT wants to push their own switchgear and that is fine but it seems like publishing enough information to allow a third party integrator (ie: ME!) to be able to do the same thing will only help sell more gensets. As these machines become increasingly more complex and "inteligent", it becomes even more important to have good technical documentation. If I can not get enough technical documentation on your machine to complete my design, then I won't have any other choice but to buy another brand.
I'll try to remember to post the results of my comissioning work to let everyone know what works and what does not.
02-14-2011 03:13 PM
Hi, how did you make out? Have you commissioned the project yet. We have a similar project we're working on with the Easy Gen System and would appreciate hearing more about your experience with this project. Thank you.
02-15-2011 11:17 AM
It's up and running but not the way we had hoped. We could get the easYgen to communicate over the CAN2 bus but the only usefull data that seemed to be available was the red and amber light status on the genset and the J1939 fault codes when a fault was present. Connecting it to CAN1 (the link between the ECU and EMCP) did not work at all. We could only guess at what the Self Address and ECU Address might be because their is no CAT documentation on this link that was usefull to us. Even the local CAT dealer's technician was frustrated that he could not get anyone to answer some simple questions.
In the end, we decided to do Start/Stop via hardwired contacts from the easYgen and poll the EMCP from the PLC in the switchgear. This worked but was a lot more painfull to program than what it should have been. I can't say enough good things about Woodward's easYgen. It was very easy to setup and the documentation was excellent. I can't say enough about how poor (really non-existant) the CAT documentation is. I looked into doing this same thing with a Cummins unit and found all the documentation I needed to make it happen. I'll have to remember that for the next project.